Hello my friends, and welcome back to not another Mindset show. I’m your host, Dr. Kasey Jo. My goal with this podcast is to take the science of mindset and behavior change and distill it down into actionable takeaways for you. Together we’re gonna unpack research around motivations, self-sabotage, willpower, and so much more, and we’re going to take all of that and translate it into strategies you can immediately apply.

To your health, fitness, relationships, business, marketing clients, all of the things. But just to be clear, it’s not all serious and sciencey around here. We’re gonna have a ton of fun too, and I’m so excited to share all of this with you. All right, let’s go ahead and get into the episode. Hello. Welcome back to not another mindset show.

Today’s topic is one that I see all of the time, whether it’s on Instagram, it’s with my students, it’s conversations amongst my friends, and something that I also struggle with myself, and that is imposter syndrome. If you’re someone who. Is out there trying to achieve something. You’re trying to build something.

You’re trying to see success in some area of your life, you’ve life likely experienced some form of imposter syndrome to a degree. In your life, and it’s a very normal experience. However, it’s a very uncomfortable experience feeling like you don’t measure up to other people that you will never know enough or potentially that you are just not even cut out for this stuff.

Whatever it is that you’re working on, you might find yourself tuning into this podcast because you’re hoping that I’m gonna help you get rid of your imposter syndrome and. I’d actually encourage you to do something different, and that is reframe what imposter syndrome means to you, because ultimately, whether it’s imposter syndrome or it’s stressful feelings, it’s anxiousness, it’s sadness.

As humans, we are here to experience the range of emotions and experiences, and if we were just going about our lives constantly trying to avoid negative things and uncomfortable feelings, that’s, that’s no way to live. It’s also, if you’re doing that, you’re really kind of just going to stay in your comfort zone all the time, which means that success that you’re trying to achieve.

Is going to be next to impossible. So to some degree we have to accept these negative experiences, imposter syndrome or otherwise, and just learn how to better manage them rather than trying to get rid of them all of the time. At least that’s, that’s my perspective and from, from a mindset perspective especially, it’s just going to be so much more fun because if you can see challenges and difficulties and.

Even a little bit of self-doubt is sort of a, sort of the path to get to where you want to be. Then you can learn to not only accept those feelings, but almost welcome them because you know, if you’re, you’re feeling kind of stretched or challenged or unsure, uncertain, it means that you’re doing something to get to where you want to be.

You’re taking risks in some capacity. You’re stepping outside of your comfort zone, so. Ultimately this feeling of not enoughness that comes with imposter syndrome. It’s part of the human experience especially, especially for high achievers. And actually there are some really good sides to it. And that’s kind of my goal with this episode is for you to to tune in, hear me out on what I have to share with you.

And you might realize that you don’t actually want to fully get rid of your imposter syndrome, but instead. See it as maybe something that’s not so bad and actually just something that you need to learn how to manage so it doesn’t get you off track on the way to your goals. So first things first. If you’re feeling a little bit like an imposter, you actually probably are on track.

And what I mean by this is. As we learn more, as we develop more skills, as we become more of an expert in our field or whatever, you realize how much more there is to know that you don’t know yet. So as you’re learning things. You’re going to experience some imposter syndrome because you’re becoming aware of how much more there is to know.

So it’s kind of just like a natural experience on the track to learning and developing and growing. And yes, that realization can be debilitating at times. How could you ever know everything that there is to know? How are you ever going to reach expert status? How are you ever going to measure up to the other people in your space that have been doing this for years and know so much?

Like why? Why would you ever be one of those people, you know? Why do you have what it takes? How could you ever measure up? But keep in mind the reasons you’re feeling this way is because you already do know a lot. You wouldn’t be able to recognize how much more there is to know or recognize what you are still missing and where you still need to improve if you didn’t already know enough in the first place.

The people who are overly confident and think that they know everything. They likely know less than you do. We all know those people who just act like they’ve got it all figured out, and there’s often some skepticism from other people around them, and I don’t think we want to be those people that don’t necessarily know everything, but I.

Are acting and trying to convince themselves that they do. So this is very, very much reminds me of something called the Dunning Kruger effect, which I think I might have mentioned on the podcast before you might be familiar with. But it’s this idea that the people who know a lot are the ones who feel like they don’t know enough.

And the people who are overly confident and don’t really know that much are the ones who are, again, overly confident and. Act as if, but we’re not here to just act as if we want to actually have those skills. So if you’re feeling like an imposter, just know that that actually probably means that you know more than the people who say they never experience imposter syndrome.

So there’s a difference between not being good enough. And seeking ways to progress and get better. Those are two entirely different things. The truth is you likely do have areas to improve on. There probably is places where you need to get better and you need to learn more, and you need to grow and develop in order to see the success that you want to see.

But does that ever actually stop? Is there ever a point in time where we feel like I know everything and I am a hundred percent an expert in this area and there’s nothing that I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t believe that’s true. So I would also like take a second to ask yourself, what is it that you’re.

Trying to achieve in this area and like, what does success look like to you? Because it’s the success. Goalpost is always moving. And if we can become aware of that, that we’re always going to feel like, oh, there’s a next step for me to get to. There’s more for me to learn. There’s more that I can get out of this experience.

I can be more of an expert. If you can really wrap your head around that, that can help with those imposter syndrome type of feelings and thoughts that come up. Because if that’s just the reality, then that’s how it’s always going to be. So what’s the point in fighting those imposter syndrome feelings?

Maybe it’s okay to just feel that way as long as again, it doesn’t paralyze you to the point of continuing to push forward and learn more and grow. So. Regardless, you need to learn how to manage these feelings so they don’t stop you in your tracks entirely. Next time you’re feeling or noticing these feelings of imposter syndrome, I would encourage you to try asking yourself some different questions.

What are you excited to improve upon? Rather than, where am I not good enough? What do you desire to learn more about and. How stoked are you to learn more about that area rather than, I don’t know enough? How can you make even more of an impact on your own life and the lives of other people? What, what impact is out there for you to still be able to have on other people instead of, I’m not making enough impact right now?

And how can you pursue all of these things without being disappointed with where you’re at right now? Like, how do we get around that? How do we get to a place where I am understanding that there’s more for me to know? I’m not an expert yet. I may never feel like an expert. Also, I don’t have to feel bad for where I am right now.

And that is honestly, I, I did an episode on the like dark side of a growth mindset. There’s this phenomena called the double-edged sword effect in the mindset research. And once you start to develop a growth mindset and believe in your abilities to grow and develop and take control of things and be in control of your future, that flip side that.

Other side of the sword, double-edged sword is that you can often start to feel guilty for where you’re currently at because you’re so sure of your ability to change and grow and develop with your growth mindset, that you also become hyper aware of the fact that where you’re currently at, that you’re trying to change and get better is also technically your fault because you’re in control.

So I think there, there’s kind of like a, a parallel theme going on here that. We have to get to this point of not necessarily having that double-edged sword effect and instead recognizing that. And there’s a very powerful word here that we use in the mindset research to try to get around this double-edged sword effect.

And that word is yet I’m, I’m not feeling like an expert yet, but I could see myself getting there and getting closer to that if I continue to learn more. Hire mentors. Practice, et cetera, or I don’t feel like I know enough and I don’t measure up to other people, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t be there ever.

I’m just not there yet. So I’d really encourage you to consider using that word more often and then just reframing some of those thoughts that are coming up. So anytime you have. One of those imposter syndrome thoughts of I, I don’t know enough, I’m not as good as this person. How will I ever measure up?

Instead, what am I excited to learn about in order to get there? What is that impact going to look like once I do get there, what’s the next step in order for me to feel more confident in my abilities? So again, the truth is you likely do have areas to improve on. You do have more things to learn, but this has nothing to do with you being good enough right now in the moment, nothing, they are totally separate things just because you are noticing areas where you need to improve and you quote unquote do not measure up to other people in your field or other, your peers, anything like that has nothing to do with your enoughness in this moment.

You can be good enough now and recognize that there is more for you to do, more for you to learn more, for you to achieve. And again, keep in mind because you are feeling this way, you’re actually probably way further ahead than the people who are not experiencing these feelings. So next. I wanna share some research.

These are some studies that were published out of MIT. The researcher, her name is Besima Tu. I probably totally butchered that, but she published research findings that showed in a workplace setting, those with imposter thoughts tend to compensate further perceived short shortcomings. Note. Perceived shortcomings because it’s all your perceptions, it’s all your thoughts.

Imposter syndrome is your perceived shortcomings. Those people tend to compensate for those shortcomings by being good team players with strong social skills and are often recognized as such by their employers. So in, again, this is a workplace setting. People who tend to have some of these imposter syndrome type thoughts, they are.

Somewhat overcompensating for that by leaning into their team members, really showing up for their team, being great communicators, having good social skills. So you can see where, although, yeah, it doesn’t really feel good to have those thoughts. It allows you to go show up in a lot of other ways, in a lot of better ways than someone who maybe doesn’t have those types of thoughts.

And across all of her studies, she does not find. That this, which she’s calling is an interpersonal upside. She does not find that this interpersonal upside comes at the expense of performance. And I love this because I think so often the people who have imposter syndrome type of thoughts are thinking that they’re not good enough, that they’ll never perform well enough, that they don’t have the skills or the capabilities.

But the reality is those imposter syndrome thoughts aren’t actually impacting the performance of the people that have them. Meaning imposter syndrome tends to make people work better with others and overall better team members, and it doesn’t affect the performance of those people. Pretty cool, right?

So I have a quote from her too. So this researcher, she said, she says the idea that having these thoughts at work is always going to be bad for you may not be entirely true. However, at the same time, she notes that the prevalence of these types of thoughts among workers should not be ignored, should not be dismissed, or even encouraged.

So I’m not encouraging you by the way, to have imposter syndrome. Thoughts should not be encouraged. Given that she also finds that imposter thoughts, lower self-esteem. So there is like, there’s pros and cons, right? There’s nuance to this conversation. So as part of this research employees at an investment management firm were surveyed to see which of them had workplace imposter thoughts.

And employee evaluation evaluations from supervisors were also collected. So this is part of the same research. We’re looking at employees that work at this investment management firm. They were surveyed to see if they have any of these imposter thoughts, and then their supervisors were also asked to evaluate those people.

And what was found is that those employees with imposter type thoughts were evaluated by their employers as more effective workers. With others and noted no drawbacks on their productivity overall. Again, we’re seeing the same thing show up here, so. As a reminder, I’m not trying to encourage your imposter thoughts, but rather have you reframe how it’s actually making you better in other areas.

And also that it’s not actually maybe like actually getting in the way of your productivity in the moment unless you maybe let that low self-esteem and self doubt get in the way, which. Tune into the next episode next week, and we’re gonna talk about that a little bit more. So, data from this research also describes how these kinds of workplace imposter thoughts are not something permanent.

I’m gonna say that again. Data from this research describes how these kinds of workplace imposter thoughts are not something permanent. People can absolutely diminish their imposter thoughts over time as they become more comfortable in their roles. So something to consider for yourself here is. Don’t have a fixed mindset about your imposter syndrome thoughts, and I would really encourage you to think about other areas in your life where you maybe had some of those imposter syndrome thoughts and they got better over time, as you learned more, as you got more comfortable in your skillset and you had more practice and you worked with other people, notice where it became less over time, because if you’re feeling it really heavy right now in one area of your life.

You could probably pick out somewhere else in your life where you also felt it very heavily, and over time, it actually got better. So this is not something that you have to sit with at this depth forever. However, you will have to continue to work at it and practice and get better and seek knowledge and seek support and order to get there.

And one thing to also keep in mind according to this research is that the people involved in all of these studies were working with others. So I know many of you, ’cause we’re, we’re talking about workplace imposter thoughts, right? So many of you are solopreneurs or you work by yourself in a large capacity.

Work for yourself, work by yourself. So you may not be in an environment where you can kind of use. That compensatory imposter syndrome thought process of I’m not feeling like I’m fully capable, so instead I’m gonna be the best team member ever and I’m gonna have really strong social skills and really work to help out the rest of my team.

So you may not have that benefit of being able to pour back into the organization, pour back into a team. Like we see in these studies. So what do you do about this? And I’m, I know a lot of you, I have had this conversation a lot with my students inside the health mindset coaching certification, that they just enjoy the certification so much ’cause they’re actually getting to like spitball about client.

Cases, client issues with other coaches and interact with other people and feel really supported with other people who are in their field because they don’t really get that a lot, as many of them are working by themselves for themselves. So really just kind of showcases the importance of where can you find community to lean into, whether that’s like a mastermind, you could join the health mindset coaching certification and experience exactly what I was just talking about.

Um, any other groups or programs or friend groups even? Where you could pour into and lean into in these same areas. If you can find other people who do similar work to you and kind of buddy up and support each other as maybe you’re both kind of going through these imposter syndrome feelings. So, okay.

On that note, I hope the information I’ve shared here starts to get you just thinking differently about imposter syndrome and what it really means for you, because I am, I’m talking about imposter syndrome and how that could show up. But ultimately, like, I don’t know what that means for you. I don’t know how heavily this weighs on you.

I don’t know how strong your self-doubt is, but. Underlying all of this is likely some negative feelings of self-doubt, uncertainty of your abilities, low self-esteem. So I don’t want you just fully gloss over that and say, Hey, just start to look at this differently and everything’s going to get better over time.

You’re fine. You’ll be good, you’ll be good. I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna just do that. So. In the next episode, I’m gonna walk you through a specific exercise to help you start to overcome self-doubt and just better navigate these feelings of being an imposter, not measuring up, not being capable. So stay tuned till next week where we run through that exercise together, and I think that’ll be really helpful for you as well.

So. That is all I have for you in this one, and I’ll see you next time. And that’s a wrap for today’s episode of Not another Mindset show. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to hit that subscribe button so you get notified of the next one, because if you’re anything like me, if the episodes aren’t popping up for you automatically, you’ll keep forgetting to come back to the show even if you really, really enjoyed it.

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Alright, my friends, that is all I have for you this time. I so appreciate you being here and love to see you prioritizing your growth. I’ll see you next time.